Unit 6 - Where in the Hotel gains access to a pool table. No need for a bar.

[namedforcat]

[Early one evening, if one happens to walk through the hotel lobby, they may notice something that hadn't been there when they had left through those doors.

A pool table.

Thanks to that odd offer of the powers that be to give them back something from home, Gaignun (somewhat jokingly) asked for the pool table from his office, and got it much to his surprise. It's a well loved pool table, well made with a few nicks and scratches in the wood work that speaks to the fact that it actually got used.

So there it sits, in the side of the hotel lobby, fully decked out with a sign posted saying "Free to play, just take good care of it."

It's owner, a face familiar to mosmt is right now just happily noodling around on it, making random shots. Feel free to join him, he's always up for a game.]


[[ooc: So the hotel now has a pool table, which is free for anyone to use. It's now a fixture there until he finds somewhere else to put it so feel free to appropriate it for other threads and what not.]]

Comments

That deer is so teal, it glows in the dark

[namedforcat]

Tracking chips. [Oh dear, he doesn't like the sound of that. Even though he knows Edgeworth is trying his hardest and to be fair it is hard to come up with punishments and laws without precedents, but those two words left a slightly bad taste in his mouth.

No. Let us not go into the personal, after all there are other reasons too. Now, to test the armor of Edgeworth's defense. 'Morally questionable' can wait.]

I'm afraid, I see a few small problems in that idea, though if you've got answers for them I am more then willing to hear them.

I know you said that the tracking chips were for 'the most heinous of crimes', but tracking chips depend on almost an honor system. For some, yes, the idea of tracking would dissuade them from perpetrating more crimes, but what about those who see it as a challenge? Or don't care. Or who want the audience? Those who are wont to commit the kinds of crimes you're thinking about, also are most likely those who have trained enough to become the most powerful of us.

As for the chips themselves, you even acknowledged that they may be easy to circumvent. If they are external, they would be easy enough to trick or even pass on to a hapless passerby. If you go the under the skin route, what is to stop them from just tearing them out? Not to mention getting them implanted would require a fully trained doctor, medical resources, and making sure that they heal right so you are not liable for any infections that are caused by it.

Also, how are you going to test these? While I have no doubts about Allen's work, there still will have to be trials run. I also know this is a small part of what you just told me, but it is the first thing I would like to deal with.

[truthsnomiracle]

It's understandable that this would be the point you would focus on -- I concede that it's easily the most troublesome aspect.

If someone who has already been tracked in such a way commits further crimes, further punishment in the form of temporary outlaw status is what occurs to me. While I realize the harshness of that particular solution, particularly in context, we have remarkably few viable alternatives to consider, nor do I believe that we could so easily restrain the rage of the more self-righteous in our numbers in such a circumstance. I wouldn't be dredging up a discarded practice otherwise.

They would be internal, yes -- that possibility is precisely why I began giving tracking chips consideration to begin with. Concerning removal, I had hoped that it would be possible to plant them at a sufficient depth at a random and undisclosed point of the body to complicate the matter. Apart from those considerations, I unfortunately have no ideas as to how to prevent their removal, nor do I yet know how to deal with the medical aspects you cite.

Concerning testing, that consideration is one I'm leaving to the engineers.

[namedforcat]

Temporary outlaw status? While in normal communities that would actually be a punishment, I don't think it would work the way you plan here. For one thing, it would not bar them from getting anything they wanted. After all the natives here would know nothing of it and thus help them in whatever way was needed. However, I will admit that for some, who thrive on the recognition or company of their peers, this status would be a punishment. But what of the people that just don't care?

Secondly, do you know know many of the 'hero' types we've been seeing lately? Not to mention people who would want to prove themselves or thought you were being too lenient, I worry for their safety almost more then the criminals. Again, I am perhaps worrying a little too much about power difference.

[He sighed, relaxing a little and leaning up against the pool table. It actually felt rather nice being able to have debates like this again, the one part of politics he actually enjoyed somewhat.]

Still, it is not like we can simply do nothing. I'm glad that these issues are starting to be discussed. This is a start.

[truthsnomiracle]

I was thinking less of the inability to participate in society at large -- clearly, we have no power over that -- and more of a willingness to look the other way should other kidnappees wish to exact vengeance within the allotted time. Do keep in mind that one of the defining features of outlaw status was that any crimes committed against an outlaw weren't recognized as being crimes at all.

Even the most stubborn among us could not deny forever that imprisonment and execution are impossible. Attempting to explain that torture and brainwashing would be unacceptable to significant portions of our population may prove harder depending on the circumstances, however.

I only hope that we can find others whom we can discuss such matters with to this degree quickly.

[namedforcat]

Thus transferring punishment into the hands of the populace at large. While I approve of the concept, I worry about how far it will be taken. However I worry about your comment about outlaws and crimes against them. Perhaps that is legally true but it is morally false. Still, I have to admit that in my universe vigilantism is a little more prevalent then I would like.

[truthsnomiracle]

I fully admit that the implications of outlaw status are more morally questionable than those of many other punishments. That's an important reason why, given little choice but to consider it in the case of repeat felony offenders, I insist that it ought to be a temporary status. It is, however, a fact that every punishment in existence is in some way a violation of human rights; it's merely a matter of which of the available possibilities are both useful and acceptable to society. Unfortunately, here it seems altogether too likely that if there is no circumstance whatsoever in which personal retribution is allowed, there are those among us who wouldn't accept being told to refrain from it. Compromise is often a grim process.

[namedforcat]

Compromise...indeed it is. So is punishment in fact. In a perfect world we wouldn't need it, but even here it is hardly a perfect world. [He does show a bit of sorrow during this statement.]

[truthsnomiracle]

Unfortunately, darkness shall always claw at the heart of mankind. (Admittedly, my life might very well be without meaning if it did not.)

There is, of course, the danger with the presence of outlaw status as a punishment that others will attempt to frame particularly unpopular felons, but the tracking system itself could provide evidence exonerating them for such crimes, either directly or through evidence of tampering. That makes it all the more important that sentences of outlaw status only be applicable to those already sentenced to tracking.

[namedforcat]

Hm, that may be a good way to do it if that is indeed the route we wish to go. [He looks rather thoughtful.]

Thankfully I don't think that there is anyone that would deliberately try to get themselves into that position, but even if there was they would be few and far between.

You will also have to get people to agree on what kind of crime warrants this. Everyone seems to have different definitions of what is wrong and right it seems.

[truthsnomiracle]

I believe that most sane people would agree that mass murder or serial killing would count, if nothing else. I imagine that nearly as many would sufficiently condemn its lustful equal on a similar scale. The question becomes how much farther back than that the line ought to be drawn. Further complicating the matter is the distressing lack of viable middle ground in punishment concepts; we ought to resolve that before attempting to draw the line between them and our highest punishments.

[namedforcat]

You present a very good point, however it is unfortunately one that I would need to think on for a good amount of time before I can come up with a more satisfactory answer then "hit them in the wallet".

[truthsnomiracle]

I don't suppose you can recommend anyone else in particular worth discussing these matters with? I've long found intellectual equals to be distressingly rare, and here I've furthermore been finding those who see the value of anything more civilized than personal vengeance to be even more so.

[namedforcat]

I'd suggest a man named Garviel, however, no matter how level-headed he is, I'm afraid he strikes me as the man to take things to a more extreme level then what you are intending.

Perhaps a woman named Devola, and her sister Popola. Popola I believe was the head of their village for quite some years, and Devola knows people inside and out it seems. You'd have better luck with them as they are both highly intelligent and personable.

[truthsnomiracle]

Indeed, extremists are precisely the sorts I wish to avoid.

[As for the mentions of Devola and Popola, he takes out his organizer and writes down the information.]

I'll attempt to make contact with these two as soon as I'm able.

[namedforcat]

I would try Devola first, I've found her to be the easier of the two to get a hold of. Other then that, a lot of the people that I've met here have been good people, but a little rash.

[truthsnomiracle]

Indeed, that rashness hasn't escaped my notice. It's precisely why I don't wish to broadcast my intentions to the majority of our fellow kidnappees until the concepts are well-refined and a system based upon them could be put in place quickly.

[namedforcat]

A wise choice. Keep your mind on this, but don't let it consume you. Nothing would get done should you burn yourself out.

[truthsnomiracle]

That is precisely what concerns me. [As grimly as that came out, "disturbs" might be more like it...]

[namedforcat]

[He quirks a bit of a half smile at Edgeworth] You'll be fine.

[truthsnomiracle]

[Edgeworth returns his attention to the pool table.]

It is true that we have a moment's peace now; however, we cannot be certain how long it will last, particularly given the motive involved.

[As he speaks, he lines up a shot at the lonely cue ball; when he finishes, he takes a shot, banking it off of a couple of the walls.]

[namedforcat]

Ah, the lonely 'for now'. However, peace is peace, even if it is bracketed by battles and it has its use.